Thoughts

Just some of my thoughts and ramblings
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Letters from Someone who had some dealing with the Frosts

These are letters that I have had for awhile. I asked the author if I may pass them on and post them. I did not receive a yes or no so I will leave out the name but publish the content. along with my questions.

From: Rhiannon
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 1:31 PM

Subject: Frost information

Greetings!

I happened upon your article about your time in the craft and noticed you had mentioned things about the Frosts that was very interesting. I am on a Pagan board that is protesting what the Frosts have written in their book The Good Witches Bible concerning Chapter 4 and the initiation of children.

http://pagannation.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/52076/page/2#Post52076

Is there any more information you could give about the Frosts that I can post  or pass on?

Blessings

Rhiannon

To “Rhiannon
 Only memories of what was making the rounds back in the day. Everyone was talking about how the Frosts were sexual perverts, forcing couples whom they were initiating to have sex with the Frosts, and initiating their children by violating them with wooden dildos. The Frosts did not bother to deny these stories, only to explain that they thought their actions were proper. There were even stories of Frost initiates torturing dogs for magical purposes, though Ms. Adler told me that she could not blame the Frosts for this. Of course, their whole idea of the Craft was rather strange, including their use of the ankh instead of the pentagram and using the term “side’ instead of “astral plane”.  Understand that back then there were only a handful of books on the Craft around, and feminism and homosexuality had not yet become an issue for anyone. Gardner ’s ideas that men and women should work together as equals and that homosexuals were “cursed by the Goddess” were de rigueur in the Craft. Generally, the Gardnerians (themselves somewhat obsessed with sex in the Circle) and the Alexandrians (who together made up about 99% of the Craft in the US at the time) considered the Frosts to be fake Witches who used the Craft for their own purposes. They were also vilified for advertising a course on the Craft for money, which was considered completely unacceptable at the time. When I first met them at the Washington DC Witchmeet in 1978, they were living in a house they had purchased for a group of prostitutes (several of whom they brought to the Meet) with proceeds from their course on the Craft. I purchased the course out of curiosity and was so put off by it that I threw it out. Lllewellyn, which ran the Frost ads, was also somewhat of a laughing stock in the Craft for their blatant attempt to define who was and was not a Witch, and tell everyone what Witches believed and did. “As if they knew” was the common statement often heard at Circles. These things, plus Joe Wilson’s turning in other Witches to military authorities and the Witch Wars often debated in the Green Egg were the things most Witches gossiped about when they got together back then.

Sorry I don’t have specifics, but I was not personally involved in any way with the Frosts.

From: Rhiannon

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 2:45 PM

Subject: RE: Frost information

Thanks for the quick reply.

The Witches ball was suppose to have several authors like Grimassi Kraig, Moura, but because of bringing the Frost’s actions up as part of the Ball they have all pulled out because of the ritual concerning child rape and abuse and not liking the intent of it. (It was snowballed in to more than it was to be by Frost supporters)

I was hoping to find out more information and maybe have more solid ground about the Frosts doings back then and since you are not afraid to voice what happened I thought there may be more info.

It seems so many are terrified of the Frosts.

Anyway if you think of anything or have contact info for others that may be open to talk please let me know.

Blessings

To Rhiannon
I recall that the Frosts issued a newsletter of some kind to those who took their course, and in this they spoke of these things; if you can find a copy then you would have something more concrete.

From: Rhiannon 
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 1:50 PM
Subject: RE: Frost information

I have another question for you if you don’t mind????

Does it seem that back then, or if you know now, that people seem to be afraid of the Frosts?????

I am just observing and it seems very few wants to go against them. (My personal feeling) Would you happen to have any insight to this??????

Another thing

There is this guy called Shadowhawk

http://shadowhawk.covenspace.com/gallery/

Timothy J. Alexander

sylvanus93@hotmail.com
talexander@bigfoot.com

He says he was there at the event you talk about Frost grabbing Ayeisha by the throat and throwing her to the floor.

This is what Shadowhawk had to say….

shadowhawk Says:
July 26th, 2007 at 9:38 am

Looks like there are conflicting reports , heres one from someone who knows Gavin and knew Sybil for years

Where did you get this information? Skip and I were there for this one. Gavin did not grab Ayeisha by the throat, he slapped her because she was in his face insisting that Washington D.C. was HER territory and Gavin was at fault because he did not get her permission to hold the Witches Washington Weekend there. He apologized and Ayeisha got in his face. He backed off and she got in his face. So he slapped her.

Then he sat down and apologized to everyone for hours.

Sybil was there but she did not accuse Gavin of anything nor did she make any remarks about him and children. She did, however, drink pink champagne because it was her birthday. She even danced a little but not much because she was short of breath. Her mother and her private secretary were there Yes, Sybil did die. Years later. Partly from old age and partly from being gassed in England during the war - which is why she was short of breath.

I actually got to talk to her the next day and her only comment was that American Wiccans were silly and shallow.
sylvanus93

I’m just trying to understand things.

Thanks

Rhiannon

To: “Rhiannon
The Frosts openly advocated attacking anyone they did not like, and while I was ‘taking’ their course, I received one of their newsletters requesting that all students attack someone who had written something about them that they did not like. There were many who were openly afraid of the Frosts, though among the more occult informed, there was more giggling over the nonsense they taught and practiced.

see the below post by Shadowhawk, and I have to disagree. I was also there, and I saw Gavin grab Ayeisha by the throat and throw her to the floor. Afterwards, I helped get a cold cloth for Ayeisha to hold against the red marks on her throat. And I don’t recall hearing any kind of apology from Gavin ever for this act.  Sybil may not have said anything that Starhawk heard, but when I spoke to her, she had a few things to say.  And while it is true that Sybil died four years after the train wreck by her Florida home, she was in and out of hospitals during that time suffering from the after effects of the gassing she received.

You have to understand that there are those of us in the Old Guard who place Starhawk in somewhat the same category as the Frosts.


From: Rhiannon 
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 4:43 PM
Subject: RE: Frost information

Thank you.

I believe you over Shadowhawk because he has not been nice to anyone on the pagan site. He has called women names that in my opinion shouldn’t be done and have even issued veiled threats.

You have been very helpful. If you would like to talk more please do so!!!!!

Thank you again so much for you help!!!!

Blessings

Rhiannon

To: “Rhiannon 
   Sorry about the typo confusing Starhawk with Shadowhawk – I’m afraid my opinion of Starhawk is not far different and that was in my mind when I replied.

From: Rhiannon

Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 11:19 PM
To:

Subject: RE: Frost information

(chuckle) That is ok. I read between the lines.

So this Shadowhawk said he asked someone about this information and he had an email back that Gavin just slapped Ayeisha because she was up in his face.

At least he admitted to the Frosts being kind of violent.

I wish I could get just one of those news letters you were talking about.

I have searched and searched and they are not to be found on the internet. Of course I am not surprised!

If there was just some kind of police record on the Frosts or something more valid it would help our case a lot!

To: “Rhiannon 
    I believe I recall that there are some kind of police reports on them, though I don’t recall which state they were in. I know the house they bought for the prostitutes (and then moved into with them after filing bankruptcy) was in North Carolina , but the Frosts were somewhere else ( Georgia , or Texas , or something) before that. Sorry, a lot of years have passed and it is not something I dwell on. Your best bet for getting a newsletter is to track down a former follower of Frost or some of the Old Guard who have had a more stable life than I and keep their old records.

BTW, why are you so interested in worrying about the Frosts? They are really not worth the effort. There are a lot of books on the Craft out there that are crap or very misleading.

From: Rhiannon 
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:05 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Frost information

Sorry for not replying right away. I had a commission order I had to get done.

I am interested in the Frost because I do not believe that what they wrote in their “Good Witches Bible”  about how to break the hymen of little girls, should be out there.

There are so many people who think they are wonderful harmless people.

I have proven that their documentation about chapter 4 in “The Good Witches Bible” is a lie as far as it being historically done.

I just want people to know what they are really like. Not “Harmless old people.”

Thank you so much for your time and for replying to me as you have. Many would not have done so.

I wish that you receive many blessings.

If you would like to pass on any more information please do!

Rhiannon

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 08:21:55 -0400
From:  
To: “Rhiannon 
    Rhiannon,

I saw a post you made where you said that you didn’t know if I was all there, which I thought was rather funny. I often have the same opinion of pagans who have not read at least several hundred books on the occult seeking information for their own transformation.

I recall once seeing a photo in material I got from the Frosts of several young couples being initiated with their children, complete with a photo of a wooden dildo that was described as being used on the little girls (the big girls – wives- all were required to have sex with Gavin).  I don’t recall if this was a newsletter or just some promotional material. It is unfortunate that the Internet did not exist then, since so much seems to be preserved by it these days. I found it difficult to understand how anyone could accept the things the Frosts were teaching and doing – until I encountered some born again Christians and heard ad nauseum their take on the Bible and how they thought they should live their lives. The Frost would have made more money as fundamentalist Christians, but I guess their sexual proclivities would have been a problem there, until they were caught. It is a mystery to me that more of Frosts early followers have not spoken out against him, but I guess they all have read about people like John Todd;  though I can’t say I could find anything about the fellow to like, the same is also true of his attackers. If I had a family to worry about and didn’t feel that I could protect them, I might also decide to leave well enough alone and just put the Frosts out of mind. Does anyone know who this Shadowhawk really is?


 

This entry was posted on Sunday, March 16th, 2008 at 9:21 pm and is filed under The Frosts. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

4 Responses to “Letters from Someone who had some dealing with the Frosts”

  1. The Yeti’s Cyber Smithy » Blog Archive » Photographic evidence of Gavin and Yvonne Frost’s Pedophilia? UNITED STATES WordPress 2.3.2 Says:
    March 16th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    […] http://rhiannon.blogs.pagannation.com/2008/03/16/letters-from-someone-who-had-some-dealing-with-the-… […]

  2. Jaden UNITED STATES Windows XP Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.12 Says:
    March 16th, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    wow–interesting!!! …..I am impressed, Rhiannon, with your work on this :) real life witch detective, you are!!! ;) I cant wait to see what else you can dig up!!!

  3. Rhiannon UNITED STATES Windows XP Internet Explorer 6.0 Says:
    March 17th, 2008 at 12:32 am

    Jaden
    All it takes is a bit of a search on the internet and then writing to those people.
    I have had these letters sitting around for awhile, but didn’t know if I should post them or not. I decided it was more than time to put the information out there.
    Now I have not “seen” anything. This is all through email from a person who does have a web site that mentions the Frosts and their
    dealings
    with the Frosts. This person has been extremly nice and I did not wish to post their name with the emails although I do have permission
    to forward them on to a “certain” person and did just that. I also believe this person since they have nothing to gain with speaking ill of the Frosts.
    I had also hoped that the person I had emailed these letters to would have the connections to find the newsletter that was spoken of before I posted this and the Frosts wouldn’t have time to destroy the evidence.

  4. gina UNITED STATES Windows Vista Internet Explorer 7.0 Says:
    March 17th, 2008 at 12:45 am

    Bless you Rhiannon..their world WILLcrumble down around them,,, this is only the start!

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